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Mail: Holy Spirit - John 14:16 - Another Comforter
Just a note to let you know that Jesus called the Holy Spirit, "another comforter" (Jn 14:16). The word "another" denotes clearly someone elseTom
Thanks, TomThis is an important observation. There are many ways in which God appears in three forms (or even more) and these seem to contradict His being One God or Being. However, He manifests Himself in ways which "registers" with the triad nature of mankind who was created in His image. We are often at odds without ourself or even beside ourself but we are not triplets.
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou Blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? John 10:36
If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. John 10:37
But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe,
that the Father is in me,
and I in him. John 10:38
Full invisible Deity
Manifestations (personae)
Father in me
Works
Son of God
I in HIm
Speaks
Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." Jn.14:8Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Jn.14:9
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Jn 14:10
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works sake. Jn 14:11
I understand the "another" passage as follows:
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; John 14:16
Notice that John used the word "another" and not "different" Comforter. Another is from the Greek:
Allos (g243) al'-los; a prim. word; "else," i.e. different (in many applications): - *more*, one (another), (an-, some an-) other (-s, - wise).
See the Greek sources to show that the Holy Spirit would not be a different Being.
Another and different--
"have a difference in meaning, which despite a tendency to be lost, is to be observed in numerous passages. Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes 'another of the same sort'; heteros expresses a qualitative difference, and denotes 'another of a different sort. (Vine, on Another)
Paul speaks of a different gospel (heteros) which is not another. It is a totally different gospel and not one of the same sort or more of the same. (Galatians 1:6-7. This different word is:
Heteros (g2087) het'-er-os; of uncert. affin.; (an-, the) other or different: - altered, else, next (day), one, (an-) other, some strange.
Therefore, the Comforter would not be a different one but one of the same sort. Jesus lived in flesh and blood but the Spirit was in Him. When He was glorified in His resurrected physical body, He was a comforter of another sort but not a different sort. My physical self is of one nature and my spiritual self is another.
Therefore, this would not be another or different "person" but the spirit of truth.
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 14:17
The apostles knew him (the another comforter) because He present-tense lived with them and would be in them.
In verse 18, Jesus defines comforter as a father who would not leave them orphans in the world. Furthermore, this Comforter would be the same Being in a Spirit form which they were presently listening to in a physical form. Jesus said that He would be the "another" Comforter:
I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. John 14:18
Remember that Jesus said that "if you have seen me you have seen the father." Now He says that He will be the Father to them. Next,
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. John 14:23
This would not be GOD and JESUS but "Father" and "Son."
However, Paul knew the "we" to be the full Deity which had decided that, for man to relate to a pure or holy Spirit God, He (God) would manifest Himself or "Image" Himself as a human being. This is still true. The human, physical mind cannot relate to a purely Spiritual Being. Therefore, Jesus as man is the Intercessor between our spirit and His Spirit:
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, Colossians 2:9
Jesus later "appeared" to Paul in "another form" and promised to guide him into all truth and remind him of what he had been taught. This is the same thing the Holy Spirit would do for the original apostles.
And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest Acts 26:15
But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Acts 26:16
Paul was not disobedient unto the "heavenly vision," Jesus was in "another" comforting form but His name was Jesus and He was the Lord.
I hope this helps you see "where I am coming from." I believe that the Bible clearly teaches that God manifests Himself in a triad form but that He is not three independant "persons" who, as some believe, is able to "stand side by side and face to face to hold a conference to decide who is best for what task." One notorious preacher even has a little, childish story in which the Father and Spirit seem to have tricked the Son into sacrificing Himself for the sins of the world!!
The Godhead appears to us as separated but only because our minds are not yet equipped to understand the deep things of God.
Thanks for treating differences with tolerance because I will never rise above being a student.
Kenneth
Thanks Ken for your response. I read it, but respectfully disgree. I believe in One God revealed in three persons. This is what I'm convinced the Bible teaches.Tom
Well, Tom, I don't know how to say it plainer.
Do you have an alternative translation of Jesus promising "another" and then plainly saying "It will be me?" I may be missing something -- often do.
Do you have another passage which bothers you?
The word "person" is:
Prosopon which means "appearance." The early scholars, who always (somewhere in their writings) made it clear that God could not be cut up into a family. They used the word "personae" which does not mean person but a mask or an appearance of God in different roles. The pagan view was that god was literally many gods but at the head was usually a triad. The Old Testament uses a common word, elohim, which means a plurality. However, in many passages, it is clear that Jehovah is our elohim. To refute these pagan views of several or many gods, the Bible shows that the One God manifest in Jesus Christ fulfilled all of these roles which were considered necessary.
Webster agrees with this definition by saying that persona is an actor's face mask, hence a character. However, in a modern sense, a person is "a human being, distinguished from a thing or lower animal." So when we say that God is three persons we demote Him from being a Spirit being and make him into three human beings.
Ken
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