Socrates - Women In Ministry

Socrates: Women musical performers are women preachers. Modern choirs or "worship teams" or "praise teams" are deliberately ordained to "rule over" the congregation through its singing. Because, according to Paul, singing should be preaching, the team becomes the true ruler over the flock at its most important time. It doesn't matter much who decides the color of the soap dish. This is just a case of the "young lions" usurping the "senior shepherds." This leaves the sheep in danger and the lions get the flock for supper or its cash equivalent. One feminist writer asks: "If she can preach over the flock with a tune then why can't she preach over the flock without a tune?" Indeed, why not?

This is not a sexist view: if men would not set the example by presuming to lead the congregation in the "act of preaching" there would be little demand for other performance "worship" rituals. It is a fact that God only accepts those who "worship in spirit and in truth." This means that worship is in the person's own spirit or mind as it communicates with God through His Word.

To understand how those who would make public performance of praise stand between a believer and their God you must understand that they will deliberately pervert the revealed Word of God to do what God is outlawing or warning against:

Typical Proof-Text for Praise TEAMS
Team Praising of God? Ephesians 1

In a discourse between Socrates and Callicles in Georgias, Socrates begins:

Socrates Then a man may delight a whole assembly, and yet have no regard for their true interests?

Callicles Yes.

Socrates Can you tell me the pursuits which delight mankind-or rather, if you would prefer, let me ask, and do you answer, which of them belong to the pleasurable class, and which of them not?

In the first place, what say you of flute-playing? Does not that appear to be an art which seeks only pleasure, Callicles, and thinks of nothing else?

Callicles I assent.

Socrates And is not the same true of all similar arts, as, for example, the art of playing the lyre at festivals?

Callicles Yes.

Socrates And what do you say of the choral art and of dithyrambic poetry?-are not they of the same nature?

Do you imagine that Cinesias the son of Meles cares about what will tend to the moral improvement of his hearers,

or about what will give pleasure to the multitude?

Callicles There can be no mistake about Cinesias, Socrates.

Socrates And what do you say of his father, Meles the harp-player?

Did he perform with any view to the good of his hearers? Could he be said to regard even their pleasure?

For his singing was an infliction to his audience.

And of harp playing and dithyrambic poetry in general, what would you say?

Have they not been invented wholly for the sake of pleasure?

Callicles That is my notion of them.

Socrates And as for the Muse of Tragedy, that solemn and august personage-what are her aspirations?

Is all her aim and desire only to give pleasure to the spectators,

or does she fight against them and refuse to speak of their pleasant vices,

and willingly proclaim in word and song truths welcome and unwelcome?-which in your judgment is her character?

Callicles There can be no doubt, Socrates, that Tragedy has her face turned towards pleasure and the gratification of the audience.

Socrates And is not that the sort of thing, Callicles, which we were just now describing as flattery?

Callicles Quite true.

Socrates Well now, suppose that we strip all poetry of song and rhythm and metre,

there will remain speech?

Callicles To be sure.

Socrates And this speech is addressed to a crowd of people?

Callicles Yes.

Socrates Then, poetry is a sort of rhetoric?

Callicles True.

Socrates And do not the poets in the theatres seem to you to be rhetoricians?

Callicles Yes.

Socrates Then now we have discovered a sort of rhetoric which is addressed to a crowd of men, women, and children, freemen and slaves.

And this is not much to our taste,

for we have described it as having the nature of flattery.

Callicles Quite true.

Yes, and solo singing or women in musical worship teams are involved in public speaking or teaching as they stand up or preside over the flock. Rubel Shelly notes that women should be permitted both solo singing, choir singing, Bible reading or teaching along with other "stand up" roles. The elders, long-ago having lost out to the dominant, ruling "evangelist," should not, however, be usurped in the policy-making roles!! Haven't they already lost control?

Athene threw a flute away because playing it reminded the audience of an obscene sexual practice. Even the vocal contortions during public preaching as part of a musical worship team is found attractive by men who are attracted for the musical spectacle:

Aristotle on Instrumental Music

Aristotle Politics:

"[1341b] and all the instruments that require manual skill. And indeed there is a reasonable foundation for the story that was told by the ancients about the flute.

The tale goes that Athena found a flute and threw it away. Now it is not a bad point in the story that the goddess did this out of annoyance because of the ugly distortion of her features;

but as a matter of fact it is more likely that it was

because education in flute-playing has no effect on the intelligence,

whereas we attribute science and art to Athena.

"And since we reject professional education in the instruments and in performance (and we count performance in competitions as professional, for the performer does not take part in it for his own improvement, but for his hearers' pleasure, and that a vulgar pleasure, owing to which we do not consider performing to be proper for free men, but somewhat menial; and indeed performers do become vulgar, since the object at which they aim is a low one,

as vulgarity in the audience usually influences the music, so that it imparts to the artists who practise it with a view to suit the audience a special kind of personality, and also of bodily frame because of the movements required)

Plutarch on Instrumental Musical Triumph 

Plutarch, Life of Marcellus, xiv. 65, and

Quaest. Conv. viii. 2. 1, 7, where Plato is represented as "having been angry with Eudoxus and Archytas

because they employed instruments and apparatus for the solution of a problem,

instead of relying solely on reasoning."

"But when the envious opposed his (Marcellus) being brought triumphant into the city, because there were some relics of the war in Sicily, and a third triumph would be looked upon with jealousy, he gave way.

He triumphed upon the Alban mount, and thence entered the city in ovation, as it is called in Latin, in Greek eua; but in this ovation he was neither carried in a chariot, nor crowned with laurel,

nor ushered by trumpets sounding;

but went afoot with shoes on, many flutes or pipes sounding in concert, while he passed along, wearing a garland of myrtle, in a peaceable aspect,

exciting rather love and respect than fear.

Leading in Triumph From Looted Jerusalem

"Whence I am, by conjecture, led to think that, originally, the difference observed betwixt ovation and triumph did not depend upon the greatness of the achievements,

but the manner of performing them. For they who, having fought a set battle, and slain the enemy, returned victors,

led that martial, terrible triumph, and, as the ordinary custom then was in lustrating the army, adorned the arms and the soldiers with a great deal of laurel.

"But they who without force, by colloquy, persuasion, and reasoning, had done the business, to these captains custom gave the honour of the unmilitary and festive ovation.

"For the pipe is the badge of peace, and myrtle the plant of Venus, who more than the rest of the gods and goddesses abhors force and war. It is called ovation, not as most think, from the Greek euasmus, because they act it with shouting and cries of Eua (Eve or Zoe): for so do they also the proper triumphs.

"The Greeks have wrested the word to their own language, thinking that this honour, also, must have some connection with Bacchus, who in Greek has the titles of Euius and Thriambus.

This is why God ordained the two silver trumpets to excite the army or panic the enemy or to call the people int assembly. However, when the "congregation" assembled it was unlawful to perform this "triumph over" ritual with instruments and loud rejoicing.

This is also why Psalm 41 prophesied that Judas would try to triumph over Jesus but would fail and do the honerable thing and kill himself. Did you know that the "Judas Bag" into which the thief, Judas, put his stolen funds was "a bag for carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments." The word is made up of "speaking in tongues" and "of the world" or a pagan tool to find the lost "gods."

See Artist View of Judas Trying to Triumph Over Jesus With Music.

A full implementation of the Willow Creek Seeker model of church government and worship can be seen by Clicking Here.

See Psalm 41 in the Dead Sea Scrolls proving Musical Attack Upon Jesus

See The Dead Sea Scroll on the Triumph Attempt Over Jesus

See our Hohenwald Index

Musical Worship Index

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