Home... Apocalyptic... Apocryphal... Awakening... Baptism.....Caneridge... Church.... Colonial... Godhead.... MaxLucado Index... Max Lucado Creed....Max Lucado Shepherding....Lynn.Aderson... Musical Worship... Preaching... Restoration... RubelShelly... Search Our Site.. Tongues... Topical...

The Jesus Proposal Rubel Shelly and John York

The Jesus Proposal by Rubel Shelly and John York was preached and probably written while living off the poor using the legalistic LAW OF GIVING. The sermons are now published as a book and will sow discord. Click to read page 30 of the Commercial model.

Reviewed Material

Our Commentary

Bible and Other Quotations

See Max Lucado, co-conspirator, and his VISIONED PROPOSAL for Oak Hills. He and apparently Oak Hills church of Christ. Lynn Anderson continues to promote Shepherding or Discipling from the Promise Keepers which is like the Cross Roads or Boston church of Christ. This means that you must be MENTORED and disciplined if you had a lustful thought last week: true mind contro.

Suppose we have no TRUTH about Jesus Christ. Suppose that it is all myth and lies. That would mean that you can have no faith in Jesus unless God bypasses Jesus and the Word and speaks directly to you.

But since lots of people make that claim and teach different views, how can I know that YOU are the latter day Truth Revealer directly from God?

And if God didn't prevent lies being told about Jesus then how do you qualify as more reliable?

Here is one way: teach something which will cause people to die before denying the truth. So, the old stuff about music being Satan's tool is wrong; and suppose that your new revelation about music and theatrical "religion" is true; then tell us who will die for your new truth?

Then have 'post moderns' beat on your words for 2,000 years and still people will die for your words. Are we all fools and theyThe fact is that Christianity is based on the Bible which represents itself as revealing the Spirit or God or the Mind of Christ. It has stood the test of time and still informs almost all Christians for faith and practice.

Even if it is 100% myth, you cannot be a CHRISTIAN and refute it any more than you can be a Teacher of Plato and deny the writings of Plato.

What are you then? Don't know, but you cannot be a Christian and have no right to be on the backs of widows who believe that YOU believe what THEY believe. Basic, minimal, 101aaa ethics and morality demands that such unbelievers go establish their own church based on their dogma. Why not? I can tell you why not: because you couldn't find 20 people who would agree with you past the latest book from the latest Phd. So the only HORSE to laden down with burdens is the OLD church which still believes the Bible and is willing to wait "until this too will pass."

Introduction: Jimmy Williams on the Jesus Seminar (Jesus Proposal? get it?). The "scholars" of the Jesus Seminar define what Jesus said by a VOTE of its members!

# "Jesus did not ask us to believe that his death was a blood sacrifice, that he was going to die for our sins."

# "Jesus did not ask us to believe that he was the messiah. He certainly never suggested that he was the second person of the trinity. In fact, he rarely referred to himself at all."

# "Jesus did not call upon people to repent, or fast, or observe the sabbath. He did not threaten with hell or promise heaven."

# "Jesus did not ask us to believe that he would be raised from the dead."

# "Jesus did not ask us to believe that he was born of a virgin."

# "Jesus did not regard scripture as infallible or even inspired."

So says Robert W. Funk, Architect and Founder of the Jesus Seminar, in a Keynote Address to the Jesus Seminar Fellows in the spring of 1994.(1) The Jesus Seminar has been receiving extensive coverage lately in such periodicals as Time, Newsweek, U.S. News & World Report, as well as on network television.

The second source given high priority and preference by the Jesus Seminar Fellows is the Gospel of Thomas. In fact, they value it so highly they have placed it alongside the four traditional ones, giving it equal, if not superior, value and historical authenticity.

This Gospel of Thomas has now been studied for forty years, and the overwhelming conclusion of scholars worldwide has been that the document carries many of the identifying marks of a Gnostic literary genre, from a sect prominent in Egypt and the Nile Valley during the second, third, and fourth centuries.

It has been almost universally assumed that the parallels in Thomas to the New Testament Gospels and

epistles were copied or paraphrased (not the reverse, as the Jesus Fellows claim) to suit Gnostic purposes, teachings which were opposed to all ideas about a supernatural God in the flesh Who could perform miracles, forgive sin, and rise from the dead.

The Jesus Seminar Scholars have fit Thomas nicely together with "Q" to frame an historical portrait of Jesus based primarily upon these two sources.

The Jesus Scholars have declared that the Gospel of Thomas and the Q Source were written within the forty years between Jesus' death and the fall of Jerusalem, pushing forward the writing of the four canonical gospels (a necessity on their part to uphold their theory) to very late in the first century.

The Jesus Proposal or Seminar

Gregory Kouki warned that about Easter we would see the launching of another new stab at the heart of the Bible.

> As the feminist and lesbian Methodists termed their new scheme RE-IMAGING THE CHURCH,

Rubel Shelly and John York original and called theirs RE-VISIONING THE CHURCH.


Rubel Shelly removes theirs to a safety zone by calling it THE JESUS PROJECT or PROPOSAL or...

> See the JESUS MOVEMENT parallel including the music and the born again hippies.

"Like most religious revivals, the "Jesus Movement" was accompanied by a new music that expressed the mood, culture, and tenets of the new faith. "Jesus Music" was an attempt to use the language of the generation-- music--

as vehicle to bring Christ to the generation.

As William D. Romanowski points out in his history of Jesus music, "Baptizing rock music with Christian lyrics was a way of legitimizing the music for born-again hippies and making it viable in the youth market" (Schultze 1990, 149). For the article Click Here

Rubel Shelly proposes that we baptize the S.U.N. god to vizualize the S.O.N. God. He further says that we can baptize "santa" and ANY secular activity which can be painted with the name of "Christian." And if we do not baptize these things WE COMMIT SIN.

This is as NEW as Plato in the Republic who warned about music and the gymnasium which replaced the worship of the Jews during the intertestament time and was part of the Abomination of Desolation for THEIR "postmodern" era.

Very possibly, he said.

Then to sum up: This is the point to which, above all, the attention of our rulers should be directed, --

that music and gymnastic be preserved in their original form, and no innovation made. They must do their utmost to maintain them intact. And when any one says that mankind most regard

The newest song which the singers have,

they will be afraid that he may be praising, not new songs,

but a new kind of song;

and this ought not to be praised, or conceived to be the meaning of the poet;

for any musical innovation is full of danger to the whole State, and ought to be prohibited.

So Damon tells me, and I can quite believe him;-

he says that when modes of music change, the laws of the State always change with them.

Yes, said Adeimantus; and you may add my suffrage to Damon's and your own.

Then, I said, our guardians must lay the foundations of their fortress in music?

Yes, he said; the lawlessness of which you speak too easily steals in.

Yes, I replied, in the form of amusement; and at first sight it appears harmless.

Why, yes, he said, and there is no harm; were it not that little by little this spirit of licence, finding a home, imperceptibly penetrates into manners and customs; whence, issuing with greater force, it invades contracts between man and man, and from contracts goes on to laws and constitutions, in utter recklessness, ending at last, Socrates, by an overthrow of all rights, private as well as public.

It is a fact that Christianity is a religion which is informed totally by the Spirit filled Words of Christ spoken and inspired by the Apostles.

You can be a religionist and deny the Bible but you CANNOT be a Christian and deny the Bible.

Therefore, the POSTMODERN church which Rubel Shelly tries to hard to BIRTH, will be founded on the shifting sand and whatever SIFTINGS he can declare as TRUE BIBLE as opposed to the rest.

The JESUS SEMINARS and look-alikes are in a logical bind. Not to worry, because a tenet and desirable condition of postmodernism is a state of schizophrenia.

By teaching a POSTMODERN theme Rubel Shelly denies that there is any significant part of the Bible still intact (like Mormonism) but at the same time he has the power to reveal to you just what parts are still alive and well.

That puts you in a terrible position: you are a decadent and deleterious MODERNIST and POSTMODERNISTS can declare your views as now INVALID.

If you can convince educated people that they have to suffocate themselves in a plastic bag to CATCH the space ship hidden from the old people behind a COMET, then assuredly you can convince people that you should be paid to preach that which you no longer believe. But attacks against the Bible hardly qualify as a mark of scholarship which is going to be remembered in the successful pages of history.

Gregory Koukl warns that:

The "Jesus Seminar" is a group of self-described scholars who have determined Jesus probably only said 20% of the quotes attributed to him by Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John.

Brace yourself. With Easter just around the corner, we're about to see a flood of articles in the news weeklies and local papers about a very specific kind of missionary group.

These preachers practice evangelism in reverse, for they don't want you to commit your life to the Christ of the Gospels; they want you to surrender that commitment. And they claim to have history, science and scholarship on their side. They're called the Jesus Seminar.

These are people with a mission. Robert Funk, the Seminar's founder, says, "It is time for us [scholars] to quit the library and study and speak up....The Jesus Seminar is a clarion call to enlightenment. It is for those who prefer facts to fancies, history to histrionics, science to superstition."

This is a strong challenge to evangelicals, depicted here as preferring nice stories to accurate history. Sometimes the best defense is knowing the right questions to ask. Here are the ones you need when the Jesus Seminar hits the newsstands.

What Does the Jesus Seminar Believe?

The Jesus Seminar meets twice a year to dissect biblical passages. Their goal: separate historical fact from mythology. So far, they have rejected as myth the resurrection of Jesus from the dead, the virgin birth, all Gospel miracles, and a full 82% of the teachings normally attributed to Jesus--all dismissed as legendary accretions with no historical foundation. For example, only two words of the Lord's Prayer survive as authentic: "Our Father."

"What is going on here? Has there been some revolutionary new find that seriously discredits Christianity? No, not at all. The truth is that the JS is an anachronism -- a throwback to nineteenth-century quests for the historical Jesus, and not even representative of mainstream contemporary New Testament scholarship. Critique.

Like the Jubilee movement (which implicitly denies the Atonement), it began with a bang but ended with a bust but lots of God's children were offended before it whimpered as a CORPORATION,

the Jesus Seminar began with 200 "scholars" dwindled to 74 many opposed to the "fringes" of scholarship and an explicit propoganda to UNDERMINE CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN CREDIBILITY. "the remaining 40" are relative unknowns some with their sheepskin still reeking of billy goat.

One "FRINGE" view:

(3) The oral tradition of Jesus' sayings was quite fluid. Simple teachings were often greatly expanded, embellished, and distorted in the process.

(6) The historicity of John's gospel is extremely suspect.

Rubel Shelly and York teach that the Ephesus Presbytery probably wrote the "extra chapter" of John and added their imprimatur to CERTIFY THE GOSPEL. Further, they misuse history to claim that John wrote

John York: How do I make sense of Jesus going back and forth, back and forth between Galilee and Jerusalem in John's account

when he never goes to Jerusalem in Matthew, Mark, and Luke until the very end of his ministry?

The Ekklesia has no Pharisees (preaching PROFITS), Scribes (book writers) or Hypocrites. The hypocrites were actors: rhetorician, sOPHISTs (serpents or OPHIS in Revelation), singers or musicians: these functions are defined as sorcerers and therefore PARASITES.

The Ekklesia is a School of the Bible to teach that which has been taught. Those who see SELF and self-righteousness as the VALIDATOR instead of Scripture "stand in the holy place claiming to be superior to God."

But that's not the witness, the testimony John wants me to confirm.

What I am called to affirm with the

witness of my own life is that authenticating Spirit-presence

that reveals itself when I keep heaven's commandments here on earth, live the from-above life in my down-below setting.

As a Shellyite you will HEAR the audible voice of God affirming your role as AUTHENTICATOR of the TRUE, non-Biblical Christianity.

Rubel Shelly: Eusebius of Caesarea was a church historian who claimed in the early fourth century that the apostle John wrote his Gospel

only at the insistence

of his disciples and fellow presbyters at Ephesus.

Eusebius, Church History, 6. 14. 7.

Totally, 110% False Teaching to Prove a False Doctrine. If this quotation is wrong then the "maybe" proof text for MY inspiration is gone!

We will quote the sources John York and Rubel Shelly quote in error as "narrative theology" to make John's uninspired, filtered account into MY OWN CERTIFIED GOSPEL.

Rubel Shelly John York The Jesus Proposal: Yes, Jesus did many other signs that are not written in this book. But John wants us to be convinced that the work of Jesus is still going on.

Books can't contain all that Jesus did, because he is still doing things!

That is the power of the Spirit at work that is the "ask anything in my name" at work.

We are now the witnesses,

those who attest to the truth of these words,

those who not only tell the story but also live the story.

Rubel Shelly and John yoork translates "work out your own salvation" as the CULTURE working out the scriptures for THEIR time along with the assistance of God.

Since, our culture has changed WE must work out the authority for our days.

Rubel Shelly holds, apparently by some revelation, to the facts ABOUT Jesus but says about the same thing about the rest of the Bible.

The Jesus Seminar rejects:

So far, they have rejected as myth

the resurrection of Jesus from the dead,

the virgin birth,

all Gospel miracles,

and a full 82% of the teachings normally attributed to Jesus

all dismissed as legendary accretions with no historical foundation. For example, only two words of the Lord's Prayer survive as authentic: "Our Father."

Is Just- Jesus Anti- Christ

Rubel Shelly John York The Jesus Proposal: The Jesus Project:

Here is what God wants churches passionate about:

(1) "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, (2) that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16).

The Truth: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

My Thought is the FATHER and begetter of my words which are SONS. However, my Words are not my ONE AND ONLY SON. The Christ came fully in the flesh. The INCARNATIONAL VIEWS deny that.

(3) "Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ" (Acts 2:36).

(4) "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: (5) While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (6) Since we have now been justified by his blood, (7) how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!" (Rom. 5:8-9).

These are the essentials of Christian faith. It is this core message about Jesus that we share in common with other

Bible-believing, cross-proclaiming, resurrection-confessing, born-again persons that constitutes us a church.

Outside the essence of the gospel,

there are other features that reflect our history and consensus interpretations of the larger biblical message.

Jesus Seminar: One "FRINGE" view:

(3) The oral tradition of Jesus' sayings was quite fluid. Simple teachings were often greatly expanded, embellished, and distorted in the process.

Speaking of the Marcionites but equally applying it to the Bible writers:

Rubel Shelly: They had to strain the story of Jesus through philosophical sieves. They had to create and clarify special terms. They made entrance into their circles a matter of "enlightenment" as reflected in peculiar vocabulary and interpretations.

In the meanwhile, the core gospel has survived two millennia now in its narrative form of telling the big story through collections of little ones about Jesus.

> We hate to spring it on all of those PREACH ONLY CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED sermons.

> The OLD version read: For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. 1 Cor 2:2

Don't you see why moderns believe that the old writers were just writing OPINION?

Paul had to "die to self" and be conformed to the sacrificial image of Christ; and go out into the world and PREACH rather than stay at home and REACH and put his BODY at risk before anyone would believe that he was preaching a SACRIFICIAL Christ and a HOMELESS gospel.

Only then could he preach the gospel which includes removing burdens and burden laders off the backs of welfare recipients. See the rest of what Paul said about the CORE GOSPEL as an insult to the carnal.

As the Jesus Seminar believes that the Bible is filled with LEGENDS:

82% of the teachings normally attributed to Jesus--all dismissed as legendary accretions with no historical foundation

Rubel Shelly defines the narrative form as writers taking the literature and constructing a narrative for their own time, place, theological agenda and by sifting in Greek philosophy.

Rubel Shelly John York The Jesus Proposal: Paul even uses a

Jewish legend about the water actually following the people around in the desert

to say that Christ himself was present with those people just like he is with the Corinthians. T

hey were hemmed in on all sides by God and God-activity.

However B.S. (before shelly), Scripture continued to say:

And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 1Co.10:4

Well, if they stumble over the Word of Christ then don't worry: they actually belong to a DIFFERENT FAMILY:

And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient:

whereunto also they were appointed. 1Pe.2:8

If you follow the blind, then don't worry: perhaps you come from the same FAMILY of a generic "god."

Rubel Shelly John York The Jesus Proposal: If you were to picture this concept of family I have been describing, you might draw a series of circles -- each a bit larger than the one before.

By the time you get from immediate through close to more distant, perhaps the edges of those circles would need to be increasingly fuzzy. There are certainly people no farther removed than the third or fourth ring that I have never met. I don't know their names. Why, I wouldn't (perhaps haven't) recognized them as family when passing them in a shopping mall or greeting them in a church lobby. And they may be equally as unaware that I am, at least in some distant sense of biological connection, part of their larger family too.

The HUMAN FAMILY is actually ALWAYS vizualized as a TREE. Many of those limbs are dead ends, Judases, Hitlers and postmoderns. My family does not claim the descendants of fallen angels or the "seed of serpents" or the Devil's descendants who are liars because Jesus said: "They speak on their own."

Those who reject the Bible would also put the salamander as our first family member to slither out of the slime. I like salamanders and when I uncover one I try to put it back in a moist place.

Kirin, the dog yawns, stretches, "talks," fusses, sings and asks to go outside: except for wagging her tail I feel a strong family connection. But, I don't know how far I have to go to AFFIRM my family. For instance, if the deer eats my pairs I think that it is cute but if the groundhog eats my strawberry roots I bump him off without a qualm.

If you believe that only seven facts ABOUT Jesus have been rescued while the rest has been SIFTED by philosophy and the writer's personal agenda, they by what authority can you promote the Jesus Project or Proposal or Seminar of lumping everyone into a global FAMILY OF GOD by appealing to Adam? But, it is easy:

Rubel Shelly John York The Jesus Proposal: Press the matter all the way back to Noah -- even to Adam -- and I suppose we derive the term we occasionally employ when referring to "the human family." But we certainly evidence very little of the true sense of a connected and loving family across human history. People who speak different languages, embrace different cultural heritages, and/or have skin of a different color seem more inclined to think "foreigner" rather than "family" of the other. Ethnocentrism has even tended to have these dissimilar groups looking upon one another with disdain.

If the JUBAL family learned how to enslave the world through the use of musical instruments, making of weapons and collectivizing all of the FREE sheep to be sold back to the owners, then pretty soon we see that ETHNOCENTRISM is not some kind of evil condition which shall be wiped out to defend the Jubal family.

If I remember the Towers of Babylon which is the only family roots for musical and theatrical performance trying to "move into the presence of the gods" God gave them different languages to keep them from building MEGA-CHURCHES and trying to collect all of the people into one FAMILY with one collection plate.

Sodomy is considered the sin in the Garden of Eden by a Lucifer (Zoe) figure who attempted to bring heavenly music down to the people who still had human responsibilites. This will also be the end-time Babylon prostitute religion. History recognizes these as a distinct class of people. I won't "fire bomb" them but God has not given me the responsibility to FELLOWSHIP with them in a broader family.

Postmoderns feel that they have been granted NEW GLASSES for a NEW VISION of the church. However, this is as new as Eve being "totally seduced" because Satan always asks: "Hath God really said?"


1. Others again declare that Cain derived his being from the Power above, and acknowledge that Esau, Korah, the Sodomites, and all such persons, are related to themselves. On this account, they add, they have been assailed by the Creator, yet no one of them has suffered injury.

For Sophia (and ZOE) was in the habit of carrying off that which belonged to her from them to herself.

They declare that Judas the traitor was thoroughly acquainted with these things, and that he alone, knowing the truth as no others did, accomplished the mystery of the betrayal; by him all things, both earthly and heavenly, were thus thrown into confusion.

They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they style the Gospel of Judas.

The Cainites also reversed biblical values by revering such rejected figures as Cain (whence their name), Esau,

and the Sodomites, all of whom were considered to be bearers of an esoteric, saving knowledge (gnosis).

These biblical persons were said to have been punished by a jealous, irrational creator called Hystera (Womb).

The Cainites also honoured Eve and Judas Iscariot and had gospels bearing their names.

God sent a preacher of righteousness to try to overcome the RELIGIOUS CEREMONIALISM built around sexual fertility rituals but when they refused to listen He did not send an ECUMENICAL PREACHER to settle for "Unity in Diversity."

You got it, He "pruned" the trees and culled the flock.

Rubel Shelly John York The Jesus Proposal: Does the Bible not affirm that humankind shares a common ancestry under God? (Acts 17:26). Was that fact not part of the earliest church's plea for seeing the gospel as a message to Jews and Gentiles alike? And wasn't that plea a fulfillment of our Lord's promise to create "one flock, one shepherd"? (John 10:16b).

Well, in a sense and the Catholic Jubilee movement was intended to wipe out all inequities with the social gospel. The purpose of the Catholic Jubilee was "for the atonement of the people." However, not all people want to be At One especially if you impose a JUBAL like organization to settle diversity once for all times.

We suspect that this means that all created people have an equal opportunity. However, to deny that MOST of the people have ALWAYS been anti-God and anti-Christ is to miss the story of history and therefore to repeat it.


People make fair choices and we have no duty to FELLOWSHIP everyone when we believe that their teachings are both in error and destructive.

Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Matthew 23:33

Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Matthew 23:31

That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Matthew 23:35

Cain killed Abel so Cain must have been the offspring of Satan. He was the devil because he "spoke on his own" in the way he tried to worship God with a sacrifice which had not been commanded. This "seed" would continue until the time of Christ:

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Ge.3:15

Jesus refused to speak to certain people in parables which had hidden the mysteries "from the foundation of the word."

Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Fathers name, they bear witness of me. Matthew 10:25

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. Matthew 10:26

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: Matthew 10:27

Hippolytus defined the serpent worshipers:

The serpents, however, of the magicians-(that is,) the gods of destruction-withstood the power of Moses in Egypt, but the rod of Moses reduced them all to subjection and slew them.

This universal serpent is, he says, the wise discourse of Eve.

[Eve, or ZOE, the Mediatrix, was honored because the serpent taught her feminine knowledge]

This, he says, is the mystery of Edem, this the river of Edem;

this the mark that was set upon Cain,

that any one who findeth him might not kill him. This, he says, is Cain, [Gen. iv. 15] whose sacrifice [Gen. iv. 5. ] the god of this world did not accept.

The MARK of Cain may be defined by his name:

Qayin (h7014) kah'-yin; the same as 7013 (with a play upon the affinity to 7069); Kajin, the name of the first child, also of a place in Pal., and of an Oriental tribe: - Cain, Kenite (-s)

Quwn (h6969) koon; a prim. root; to strike a musical note, i. e. chant or wail (at a funeral): - lament, mourning woman.

Of those with the mark:

Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 2 Thes 2:9

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2 Thes 2:10

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 2 Thes 2:11

That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thes 2:12

Why do some people repudiate the Word as the MARK of Christ? Jesus would say that perhaps the have no option.

Therefore, there have always been TWO FAMILIES who have different FATHERS and we dare not BREAK DOWN THE WALLS or send out SEEKER INVITATIONS to a musical festival: the Mark of Cain.

Irenaeus describes how people cease to be of the same family. This would seem to restrict how far we can go in including all people under the same umbrella.

"They are become like horses, furious about females; each one neighed after his neighbour's wife." And Isaiah, when preaching in Judea, and reasoning with Israel, termed them "rulers of Sodom" and "people of Gomorrah;"

intimating that they were like the Sodomites in wickedness,

and that the same description of sins was rife among them,

calling them by the same name, because of the similarity of their conduct.

And inasmuch as they were not by nature so created by God, but had power also to act rightly, the same person said to them, giving them good counsel,

"Wash ye, make you clean; take away iniquity from your souls before mine eyes; cease from your iniquities."

Thus, no doubt, since they had transgressed and sinned in the same manner,

so did they receive the same reproof as did the Sodomites.

But when they should be converted and come to repentance, and cease from evil, they should have power to become the sons of God, and to receive the inheritance of immortality which is given by Him.

For this reason, therefore, He has termed those "angels of the devil," and "children of the wicked one," who give heed to the devil, and do his works. But these are, at the same time, all created by the one and the same God.

When, however, they believe and are subject to God, and go on and keep His doctrine, they are the sons of God; but when they have apostatized and fallen into transgression, they are ascribed to their chief, the devil-to him who first became the cause of apostasy to himself, and afterwards to others.

Not even God expected everyone to join in a Jesus Project.

Martin Luther notes there there are THREE DISTINCT CLASSES of people. Luther also repudiates the Lucado, Shelly Trinity.

No, the Bible does not totally affirm unity excepton the "animal level." In fact, the Old Testament makes it clear that there is a class of humanity whose father is the devil or that they are derived from that group. In Matthew 13 Jesus said that things had been hidden in parables from the foundation of the world. Accordingly, Jesus spoke to the SPIRITUAL and HID HIS WORD from the RELIGIONISTS. That begins in Genesis 1:1. Paul did say that we are humans and the God named UNKNOWN is not to be worshiped. He was part of the Triple-Male: "And if he sees one of the hidden ones, he sees the Aeon of Barbelo. And as for the unbegotten offspring of That One, if one sees how he lives."

For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. Acts 17:23

God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Acts 17:24

Neither is worshipped with mens hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; Acts 17:25

God did not intend that people have to fight like animals because He created all MEN alike so that they CAN seek and find God. This does not mean that Satan didn't try to destroy God's plan by introducing his own host of ugly demons including the UNKNOWN ONE who was later big time in Gnosticism:

And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; Acts 17:26

That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: Acts 17:27

Dr. Shelly and friends seemed to have tried to divide MY men from YOUR men by the use of Musical Worship Teams to "lead the worshipers into the presence of God." Of course, that denies the role of Jesus Who died for that honor and it denies what Paul is saying that you don't have to DO RITUALS to force the kingdom to come with flashing lights and a prize winning attendance. Why do religionists try too hard and drive away the SPIRITUAL? Because God had not provided a JOB DESCRIPTION for human mediators:

For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Acts 17:28

And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Luke 17:20

Neither shall they say, Lo here or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Luke 17:21

This is why people who find that they can get the unfiltered truth for free are deciding that they don't have to pay an unlawful and UNHOLY tithe of their widow's pittance to get their weekly dole from the doctors of the Law.

But, we are not ALL the same sincere, saved, non-hostile people. Some people make it their live's work to sow discord among brethren. Assuredly, they cannot be of the same family. They need to check up on their genealoty.

A host of extra Biblical evidence supports the idea that there were different kinds of people. For instance:

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. Genesis 6:2

And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. Genesis 6:3

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4

And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Genesis 6:5

Isn't it most likely that if Satan wants to destroy Christ he will actively try to destroy the Bible. And that he has his own angels or missionaries and one would guess that the majority of pulpits are filled with such agents since they have no Biblical mandate OTHER THAN to teach the Word "as it has been taught." When they move away from that and the songs are the songs of culture you can be pretty sure that THESE GIANTS are not remotely part of THE FAMILO OF GOD.

The Book of Enoch and other literature treats these as as the Jubal or Genun family used by Satan to seduce people with mixed-sex choirs, instrumental music and homosexuality. Maybe Jesus is not speaking literally but here is what He said:

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me:

for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. John 8:42

Jesus spoke in parables to HIDE THE TRUTH from Satan's seed lest they get hold of it and have to be forgiven. Now, does that suggest that we must consider THE FAMILY OF MAN the same as THE FAMILY OF GOD? No. Silly.

Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. John 8:43

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

The "parable" of the king of Tyre places him in the garden of Eden as a "harp playing prostitute." God gave such people musical instruments as their WEAPONS. Ezekiel 28. This and NEW WINE gave him the power to seduce mankind into sodomy. This was to effectively murder them because he has no place for TRUTH in his heart or language.

He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. John 8:44

Therefore, Jesus refused to speak to these religionists except in parables to keep the spiritual kingdom out of their grubby hands. They were religious, they had the biggest SEEKER CENTER in town but Jesus says that they are not God's children and "I am not going to preach to them except in riddles."

By failing to recognize the hostile forces in the world actively attempting to seduce people--usually with music to keep them from hearing the Word of God--people are just as crippled as to tell them when going into battle that all NAZIS are children of the same God and we must be ECUMENICAL. Nonesense!

Next, look at where Shelly and John York are going to establish that all believers belong to the family of God and therefore THERE IS NO ENEMY when we land at INCHON:

Rubel Shelly John York The Jesus Proposal: And wasn't that plea a fulfillment of our Lord's promise to create "one flock, one shepherd"? (John 10:16b).

The one flock does not consist of all who claim to be Christians.

Let's back up and notice one of the reasons institutional religion must give way to personal spirituality: the SHEEP do not lay down their LIVES (stored in dollars) for the hireling shepherd:

I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. John 10:11

But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf caJohn 10: 12tcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. John 10: 13

Unless we are heading for universalism, Jesus noted that there were SHEEP which do not belong to HIM. And consistent with Biblical history, only a tiny remnant of people who belonged to the Father and were given to the Son would ever enter into the church.

On the outside, the host of wickedness would form new competing "churches" to surround the true church and try to DROWN it in its infancy.

I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. John 10: 14

As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. John 10: 15

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. John 10:16

Jesus would bring both Jew and Gentile into ONE FOLD but the ONE FOLD implies that there are not MANY FOLDS and that those OUTSIDE OF THE ONE FOLD do not belong to Him. However, Jesus knew that there are sheep and their are goats and there are wolves.

Only certain people who are ABLE to hear Jesus are spiritual children and all of the rest automatically fall into the OTHER family which does not belong to God:

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:26

For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Gal 3:27

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.Ga.3:28

They who are baptized into Christ are ONE IN CHRIST but those who may be sincere but make a cult out of repudiating Baptism CANNOT be the children of God because in the case of John's baptism.

And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. Luke 7:29

But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him. Luke 7:30

It does not matter how big the denomination of the Pharisees and "doctors of the Law" became, they COULD NOT be the children of God and therefore to lust to GET IN BED WITH THEM is useless because THEY DON'T want to get in bed with you except to gobble up your members.

Rubel Shelly John York The Jesus Proposal: Do we not think in terms nowadays of a "shrinking planet" and "global village" in calling one another to such things as ecological responsibility and dismantling terrorist structures?

So why don't we take the notion of church as the family of God seriously?

See how Max Lucado along with Promise Keepers fuels the GLOBAL VILLAGE or church. The goal is to set up CITY LEADERSHIP with SATTELITE or CAMPUSES all over the city. Max Lucado has joined the GLOBAL CHURCH groups which intends a one world church. Theis is based on Promise Keepers. Lynn Anderson is also fueling the SHEPHERDING or DISCIPLING dilema to force people to divulge their deepest sexual lusts and be HELD ACCOUNTABLE. Because the STAFF rides over the elders they may have Lynn Anderson and his group in your conservative church (to gain credibility) without your permission.

Global Village? Hardly. More like a global pretend garden of Eden where Satan can give his push for the end-time SODOMIZING of the church and world.

Why else wold he, like the original Jubalites, try to PEN UP all of the sheep and then invite in the SEEKERS of sheepfolds to capture? No faithful SHEPHERD would fall for the "hath God said" ploy that after all sheep and wolves belong to the same FAMILY.

Ecological: It seemed clear even before it began, and is proven that the ecology of not allowing the Foresty service as SHEPHERDS to TRIM OFF DEAD BRANCHES to make a healthy forest or church: it just collected DEAD WOOD for the fires of hell to consume.

Unfortunately, when you don't prune the vines and persecution comes the healthy vines get burned up right down to the bacteria and seed in the soil. So, the church is God's Vineyard and it is not a GLOBAL VILLAGE. The REMNANT is always a tiny drop of juice and Paul said that if you want to find Christ and the Kingdom you will have to "go outside the camp."

The REMNANT which returned from captivity was less than 1% of those who came out of Egypt. Why? Because God had sentenced them to captivity and national death for "rising up to play" with music-induced sodomy at Mount Sinai.

In Isaiah 5 God planted Israel as His Vineyard but when He sang HIS SONG it said that the people had focused on wine, women and song so that the nation died "intoxicated on ignorance."

Therefore, this Shelly TROT LINE will not catch any rational person who knows that you cannot create an ecumenical arrangement out of thistles and corn.

Dismantling terrorist structures: Dr. Shelly is fond of labeling conservatives by comparing them to hate groups. However, spiritual terrorism can occur when, in the words of one instrumentalists, you decide to "take an axe to non-instrumentalists."

At ACU: He demands that non-musical churches fellowship instrumental churches to escape the horrors of being: "fratricidal, traditionalist, legalists, unChristian posture, schismatic, Satanic, sectarian, idolatrous, irrelevant, just pushing junk." The same people who don't have the time or inclination to "fellowship" musical churches are said to preach an "ology" of church which is decadent and deliterious. To those without doctorates, that is rotten and destructive.

Denying inspiration for John

Rubel Shelly: They will never take our message seriously if we are the

same old greedy, lecherous, racist, stoned, sexually impure, dishonest, sexist, drug-dealing, bar-fighting, cussing, wife-beating people some of us were a few months or years ago!

They will never believe this Church of Christ is healthy

if we are the same sorry, self-righteous, finger-pointing, judgmental, everybody-else-is-going-to-hell Church of Christ they have encountered somewhere before!

That pronounces RACA on the name of CHRIST and Rubel has and Max Lucado proposes taking CHRIST out of their name.

It is spiritual terrorism to sow discord all over the country by teaching and equiping people to return to their peacable churches and form Musical Worship Groups. We have made it clear that there is no Biblical place for praise teams and history knows that music can be spiritual and emotional terrorism. It also recognizes that the only PATTERNISM for "mediating musical teams" is the homosexual worship of the homosexual gods through the homosexual agents of the gods.

That is how you destroy church as family!

Rubel Shelly: So why don't we take the notion of church as the family of God seriously?

Perhaps it is because the citizenship of The Family of God is in heaven and its only worship is IN SPIRIT or in the Most Holy Place where we come boldly before the throne of Grace. However, at some level postmoderns claim GREATER power than Jesus but Jesus certainly had no play to LUMP everyone into one FAMILY without a new birth.

Jesus taught and Paul preached that WORSHIP IS IN SPIRIT and PRAYER IS IN SPIRIT just where Jesus commanded that it should be.

Jesus told evangelists to go preach, baptize and teach. Paul said plant and water and don't try to be God and give the increase. If you don't plant then you cannot grow a family.

In the image of the Temple, the "music" which is called noise was outside of the temple. The holy place representing the church and the most holy place representing heaven and our mind was OFF LIMITS to preachers and musicians. The holy place does represent the seven spirits of knowledge proving that church was a synagogue.

The CHURCH gathering is the Greek ekklesia which was a place to hear evidence and make decisions. It was more county court than pagan worship center. And any Musical Worship Team which barged into the Ekklesia would be hauled down to the pagan temples where their sistern and brethren musicians engaged in a sexual form of worship.

However, when the people assembled a form of the word "synagogue" described their reasons for meeting. That made church a school of the Bible. Trying to make the local congregation The Family of God is presumptious and makes education virtually impossible because of the cursed "pyramidal ministry system" with which God burdened Israel when they fired Him and demanded a king or 'dominant pastor.'

Rubel Shelly John York The Jesus Proposal: Over the next several weeks, John York and I will preach a series of sermons in which we will seek to clarify both the theological and practical means by which

today's divided church can see itself as the extended family of God.

We will explore the notion of "making every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace" (Eph. 4:3).

If properly constituted there would be no more rational reason to have the God-like urge to merge or fellowship the Technical school in my county with the Art school in Minneapolis.

The LOCAL congregation meets to look out for its poorest and not burden the poorest with the preacher's retirement plan. It is a school of the Bible and its highest and only preacher-teachers are the elders and deacons. The absolute demand was to "teach that which has been taught" and to "refute error."

Church is not called upon to meet at Jubilee to learn how to lift holy hands, and the Baptist church across the street is not going to get upset if our group does not disband and join their group. In short, the ecumenical urge is part of the heresy that WE have to bring the kingdom into existence BEFORE little Jesus will be able to return. The proof of this green persimmon pudding would be seeing all groups merge into a WORLD-WIDE FAMILY OF GOD. It is not going to happen and the dreamers should just Preach the Gospel to their own group and quit feeling guilty that they cannot HASTEN GOD'S WORK as they claim that they can do with Musical Teams.

Why do we believe that a proposal to unite the EXTENDED FAMILY of God while destroying unity is a violation of HOW Paul said that unity could be kept?

I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, Eph 4:1

With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Eph 4:2

Endeavouring to keep the unity (unanimity) of the Spirit in the bond (synagoging) of peace. Eph 4:3

The possible disunity among the Orphic vegetarian musical background, and the Dionysiac, wine-drinking, meat-eating, musical background in Romans 14 is solved by NOT HAVING MUSIC.

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. Romans 15:4

Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus: Romans 15:5

That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 15:6

This the perfect way for us to SPEAK THE SAME THINGS:

Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1Co.1:10

Every church in the world can practice this unity and be ONE church as synagogue or school of the Bible by connecting our mind or spirit to God's Mind or Spirit. You don't need any doctors of the Law: Jesus told you how to be united based on the Word which the Father spoke to the Son:

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63

If you reject the Words of Christ then you are assuredly left with a panic effort to see one program after another in a spastic, end-time dance of the headless chicken

If you toss out the Word of Jesus you toss out Jesus and this happens when you sermonize and versify rather than obeying the direct command. If the "musical ministry team" leads you into the presence of God you are saying that they replace Christ and His Word. Therefore, disunity flows outward from Nashville by the train load because connection to the Head has not been lost but sacrificed on the double cross of praise singing and the cross both of which were phallic:

And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. Col.2:19

Musical worship and now the Jesus Seminar look alike will not get any closer to making everyone agree with Dr. Shelly than the Inspired Word of Jesus Christ whose "fully coming in the flesh." The PUNISHMENT is the denial that Jesus was the Word before John got the idea from Gnostic idolaters and now the denial of the only resource for Christian Worship and Practice. You simply can no longer claim to be a Christian if you deny the only document which, according to Paul and Peter, guards against false prophets.

The word "God" is a generic word: Jesus is specific and as the prophesied Joshua means Jehovah-Saves. When you take the word Jesus Christ off your name then you are doing Jesus a favor. You do not have the FAMILY captured in the pens of Jubal, Jabal, Tubal-Cain and Naamah.

Liberation Theology: A movement that attempts to unite theology with social and religious concerns about oppression. It finds expressions among blacks, feminists, Asians, Hispanics, and Native Americans, but it is most closely identified with the shift toward Marxism among Roman Catholic theologians and priests in Latin America.

Most traditional doctrines of Christianity are de-emphasized or reinterpreted. Jesus and the Bible are defined and interpreted in light of a class struggle,

with the gospel seen as a radical call to activism (or even revolution) promoting political and social answers usually in the form of classic Communism.

The Jesus Project Part Two


Rubel Shelly Sermon Reviews

Home Page

Home... Apocalyptic... Apocryphal... Awakening... Baptism.....Caneridge... Church.... Colonial... Godhead.... MaxLucado Index... Max Lucado Creed....Max Lucado Shepherding....Lynn.Aderson... Musical Worship... Preaching... Restoration... RubelShelly... Search Our Site.. Tongues... Topical...

2000 4:11.05

personal injury

Hit Counter