Rubel Shelly - Faith Matters

Well, I kinda like to read old Jeremiah for what Jeremiah said as the FIRST STEP. I kinda don't like to make Jeremiah's verse 11 speak to me because that might mean that I AM SMACK IN THE MIDDLE OF BABYLONIAN CAPTIVITY. Careful, there latter day prophet.

WE don't believe that this fits OUR situation except to the extend that we can learn NOT TO GO BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN.

Henry Blackaby teaches that believers should be able to hear the voice of God speaking to them like Moses, Abraham and Noah did. This certainly implies a continuing miraculous, inspired revelation from God to man, which actually ceased at the end of the first Century when the New Testament was completed. Even in the time of Moses, God did not speak to anyone else like He did to Moses (see Numbers 12:6-8.) God punished Miriam with leprosy for the offense of claiming to hear God's voice like Moses did, Numbers 12:2, 10 [Ditto Rubel Shelly]

Deceived into believing that the Spirit is a geist as in poltegeist, Rubel Shelly notes that:

The Holy Guest will supply everything you need. In your weakness,
you will feel his strength.

Not only through the exhortation of the Word of God
but in your daily routine,

you will hear from
and experience the Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul said that the HOLY GHOST is to us THE MIND OF CHRIST (1 Cor. 2). Peter said that the Spirit of Christ informed the prophets (1Pet 1:11). When the Spirit Lord spoke to Paul, He said, "I am Jesus of Nazareth."

Therefore, if the imagined Blackaby / Shelly HOLY GHOST says something new just for us then we have Lord Jesus Christ repudiating the Spirit words (John 6:63) of the FIRST Jesus Christ.

Henry Blackaby, going by experience rather than by the Word of God, exhorts today's Christians, saying

"If you have trouble hearing God speak (like this), you are in trouble at the very heart of your Christian experience." (p.36)

If you accept this teaching and feel properly guilty and unspiritual about your inability to hear God's voice just like Moses did, then you are ready to go on to the solutions that Blackaby proposes. If you are not hearing those audible voices from God, all you have to do is obey your leaders without question!

Rubel Shelly: I have no objection to that, for I believe God is the same yesterday, today, and forever --

and therefore is always determined to bring his people to holy outcomes.

But we must be certain that we look for God's guidance into those prosperous and hopeful times. We must be cautious about trying to chart our own course, lest we wind up defeating his will for our lives. It is so easy to do, for "there is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death" (Prov. 14:12).

I am the same person I was yesterday. However, what I may have said to my youngest daughter yesterday has nothing to do with what I say to my oldest daughter today.

If God came FULLY in the flesh as Lord Jesus Christ "yesterday" and then returned to His Glory and Majesty, then God does not come fully as ME today.

The message is that if God has said YEA then it will be a YEA forever.

Henry Blackaby asks: "Does God really speak to His people in our day? Will He reveal to you where He is working when He wants to use you?

Yes! God has not changed. He still speaks to His people. If you have trouble hearing God speak, you are in trouble at the very heart of your Christian experience."

Well, from those prosperous and hopeful times the people returned and about the first thing they did was form clergy choirs and march upon the walls with musical instruments like triumphant conquorers. This upset the natives who had reason to fear the returnees. The work stopped for sixteen years. When the miserable temple was restored the people turned it into a den of thieves and a house of merchandise. After a short interval, the temple isn't heard from for a hundred years when the Jews were being forced to eat sacrificed pigs offered upon the temple altar.

There was no holy outcome. Josephus blames the Levites for the destruction of the nation and again the Levites rose up, wanted to wear linen garment and be temple musicians. Josephus warned that the temple and nation would again be destroyed. The Jews were never again free people except for short, violent periods. God didn't return them to a holy outcome: God returned them to vindicate His name and prove Himself over and over to an" unfaithful brood of vipers."

Rubel Shelly: According to the biblical perspective, we all need divine guidance for our lives. "We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way," said the prophet (Isa. 53:6a). This statement about humankind being like straying sheep is spoken in the context of the great Suffering Servant text that the earliest Christian evangelists used so constantly in explaining the work of Jesus of Nazareth.

I can say one thing with certainty based upon the "biblical perspective." Lord Jesus Christ would not attempt to solve psychological problems by holding a sexuality seminar in order to sell books and tapes. I am certain about that! And anyone who is a faithful follower must not even worry about where to lay their head or He absolutely cannot use them. And I am certain that it isn't the Holy Spirit prompting the quotation of partial verses:

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isa 53:6

When Jesus quotes anything He POINTS us to that passage for the clear message. He DID NOT SPEAK to the clergy (Matt 13).

I am also certain that if Jesus did not serve as God's Incarnate Word and deliver His spoken and written Word as Spirit and Life (John 6:63) capable of instructing us about life and Godliness, then we have denied the deity of Jesus in whom Paul thought that full Deity dwelled (Col. 2:9).

I am certain that if one is applauded and called in because of personal charm, skill or popularity then they may be good psychologists but "psychologist" is not one of those spiritual Gifts from Christ:

WHO hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? Isaiah 53:1

For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. Isaiah 53:2

He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Isaiah 53:3

Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. Isaiah 53:4

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. Isaiah 53:5

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:6

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. Isaiah 53:7

The word "afflicted" has the meaning of sing. It was prophesied that they would afflict Him to try to "triumph over him." This means to blow the wind instruments, sing and dance and belittle His Deity. Click For the Ugly Story.

Rubel Shelly: If indeed we have all gone astray and if the paths we pick in our confusion are most frequently the ones that lead to death rather than life, isn't it obvious that we need guidance?

Isn't it transparent that we need a guide, mentor, and rescuer?

Yes, that is what God thought and it was because:

Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey. And the Lord saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. Isaiah 59:15

And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm (Jesus) brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. Isaiah 59:16

And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord. Isaiah 59:20

As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seeds seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever. Isaiah 59:21

God through Isaiah did not prophesy a "little man" or third-god sitting on the shoulders of Jesus. Rather, the "spirit" would all be related to the human spirit or mind (see Isaiah 11 just below). And Jesus said that His Words were that Spirit and Life. The Infinite God of the Universe has the power to put power in the spoken Word and speak the Worlds into existence. Surely He has the power to supply us for "life and Godliness." Paul confirms this by equating this Spirit of Christ to the Words of Christ in Ephesians 5 and colossians 3.

Rubel Shelly: Among the best-known and most often-quoted verses from the Book of Proverbs are these two that reflect the tenor of the entire collection: "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight."

Human wisdom isn't enough. We humans are not smart enough to find our own way.

So, rather than take pride in our own understanding,

we will be wiser to follow the Lord with wholehearted abandon;

Is that "letting go and letting God?" Because Bob Mumford is the authority for the methods proposed by Rubel Shelly of supplimenting the Bible with (1) your own personal experiences and (2) the consensus of the small shepherding group, we direct you to Bob Mumford as founder of a New Wine Movement similar to the Cross Roads Movement, The Boston Church of Christ and The International Church of Christ. Therefore, we direct you to the charismatic connection: Click Here.

God had another view about the seven-fold Spirit which would rest upon Jesus and one doubts that we will get more than He when the "dove" as messenger rested upon Him:

AND there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: Isaiah 11:1

And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord; Isaiah 11: 2

And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord:

and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: Isaiah 11: 3

But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath (Holy Spirit in OT) of his lips (double-edged sword) shall he slay the wicked. Isaiah 11: 4

If we have the "Spirit of" Christ then we will have the knowledge of Christ. Jesus said: "My Word is Spirit and Life." The only alternative to our own understanding is to look backward and trust in the Lord to deliver His trustworthy Word.

Rubel Shelly: God himself will justify our faith in him by clearing away the obstacles that otherwise would derail our lives from their holy calling and heavenly destination.

But how does someone who is confused and bewildered, so far off the path that leads to God that she is an alcoholic or that he is addicted to homosexual relationships ever find him again? How does somebody so wounded by abuse and religious judgment that God himself seems remote and unavailable find guidance back home?

On the contrary, Isaiah says that the righteous perish because of the obstacles placed in their paths by evil people. As a result God said:

When thou criest, let thy companies deliver thee; but the wind shall carry them all away; vanity shall take them: but he that putteth his trust in me shall possess the land, and shall inherit my holy mountain; Isaiah 57:13

And shall say, Cast ye up, cast ye up, prepare the way, take up the stumblingblock out of the way of my people. Isaiah 57:14

For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones. Isaiah 57:15

For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made. Isaiah 57:16

Paul had the only answer for those with alchol or sexual problems and it was not group therapy conducted as a wing of the church:

Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 2 Cor 3:13 2 Cor 3:12

But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 2 Cor 3:14

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 2 Cor 3:15

Nevertheless, when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 2 Cor 3:16

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Cor 3:17 (The spirit of the Lord is the Lord the Spirit)

But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. 2 Cor 3:18

THEREFORE, seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; 2 Cor 4:1

But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully;

but, by manifestation of the truth, commending ourselves to every mans conscience in the sight of God. 2 Cor 4:2

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 2 Cor 4:3

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2 Cor 4:4

For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus sake. 2 Cor 4:5

For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 2 Cor 4:6

But we have this treasure in earthen vessels (not wineskins), that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. 2 Cor 4:7

The Treasure is from the Greek:

Thesauros (g2344) thay-sow-ros'; from 5087; a deposit, i.e. wealth (lit. or fig.): - treasure.

That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; Col 2:2

In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Col.2:3

There is only One Light, One Beacon. Believe it. Obey it. Preach and stop relying upon human charisma or book-peddling ministeries.

Discerning Divine Direction

Before Rubel Shelly uses Bob Mumford as alternative authority let us note that:

"Bob Mumford's ministry has been to prophetically proclaim and teach the sufficiency of Christ Jesus and His Kingdom in a manner that promotes reconciliation and unity. Bob seeks to bring about personal spiritual change and growth in the life of every believer without undue reference to denominational distinctions.

Take Another Look At Guidance

"Take Another Look at Guidance provides biblically-based counsel about how to find and follow God's guiding path through life. That council has proven sound for more than 20 years the book has been in print. Some of the chapter titles are: Luck . . . or Happenstance?, Knowing the Will of God, The Holy Spirit Speaks, and Signs and Fleeces.

"You will also learn about the three harbor lights of Guidance:

Word of God

Holy Spirit

Circumstances

Suggested Donation $8.00.

See Bob Mumford and Rubel Shelly on Discipleship Below

Now, Rubel Shelly:

Rubel Shelly: Bob Mumford tells about a harbor in Italy that can be reached only by sailing up a narrow channel made terribly dangerous by rocks and shoals. Over the years, many ships have wrecked in that stretch of water. Navigating it is truly hazardous.

To guide the ships safely into port, three lights have been mounted on huge poles in the harbor. When the three lights are perfectly lined up and seen as one, the ship can proceed safely up the narrow, treacherous channel. If the pilot sees the light separating into two or three distinct beacons, he knows he's off course and in danger.

God has provided three means of guidance for us,

and they need to "line up" before it is safe for us to proceed.

If they don't match or if they give off competing signals, stop dead in your tracks until they are in coherent and unified alignment.

The three beacons are sensitivity, reality, and community.

But we Bob Mumford teaches the three lights:

Word of God

Holy Spirit (Signs and Fleeces)

Circumstance

Hear John Wesley identify this is fanatical and madness: the rejection of the Word.

How often have we been told that we are guided directly by the Holy Spirit. Well, we ask, how do you know. I know because the direct message from the Spirit agrees with the Bible. Do you mean that the Holy Spirit says exactly what the Bible says? No. I mean that the Bible tells me to look for direct guidance and when I hear the voices I know that God is speaking directly to me. But, what you say does not agree with Paul. That is right but Paul lived under different circumstances.

Now, let's see if we have it: The Holy Spirit guides me according to the times and circumstances and that is Scriptural because the Word of God is not bound in a book.

Rubel Shelly: Spiritual Sensitivity. The first and most important light to guide us to the Lord is spiritual sensitivity.

It is important for each of us to stay in the Word of God and prayer

for the sake of keeping our hearts tender to the Lord.

Do you really think it was coincidental that Jesus responded to Satan's temptations, his disciples' questions, or his own anguish on the cross by quoting the words of Scripture? He was deeply rooted in the Word of God.

This view of the direct operation of the Holy Spirit and the Bible is this: One reads the Bible and understands how God operated on Moses or Jesus. This is not for guidance but to "keep the heart tender" or attuned to the same direct message from the Spirit (Whose name is Jesus Christ):

Sensitivity: "the responsiveness of an organ or organism to external stimuli. The capicity of a receiver to respond to incoming signals. Webster.

Spiritual: intellect,

Jesus Is the Word. He didn't need to spend a lot of time in "Bible Study" to set us an example or to become "sensitive." As spirit is breath, the message of the One God is His spoken Word which lived in Jesus Christ:

IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1 Peter 1:11

And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Revelation 19:10

Jesus wasn't "soft" or a sensitive guy; He was as hard as a Rock because:

And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 1Co.10:4

Rubel Shelly: He spent incredible amounts of time in prayer.

David wrote these words: "I seek you with all my heart; do not let me stray from your commands" (Psa. 119:10).

The Psalmist was not seeking for supernatural information to "line up" with the commandments of God and His own circumstances. He began:

Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart. Psalm 119:2

Seek can mean to follow or to worship. Sought is past tense: the Psalmist claimed to know God's law and his prayer was not for supernatural knowledge; it is for help in obeying what he already knew:

They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways. Psalm 119:3

Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently. Psalm 119:4

O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes Psalm 119:5

Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments. Psalm 119:6

I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments. Psalm 119:7

Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed (Yes, worship.) thereto according to thy word. Psalm 119:9

With all my heart I have sought Thee; Do not let me wander from Thy commandments. Psalm 119:10NAS

Quite aside from David needing to "line up the three lights" before it was safe to proceed, it is a fact that to David, God was often lost. Therefore, David like even pagans often sought to arouse or awaken God. Seek is:

Darash (h1875) daw-rash'; a prim. root; prop. to tread or frequent; usually to follow (for pursuit or search); by impl. to seek or ask; spec. to worship: - ask, * at all, care for, * diligently, inquire, make inquisition, [necro-] mancer, question, require, search, seek [for, out], * surely.

Stir up thyself, and awake to my judgment, even unto my cause, my God and my Lord. Ps.35:23

Awake, why sleepest thou, O Lord? arise, cast us not off for ever.Ps.44:23

Awake up, my glory; awake, psaltery and harp: I myself will awake early. Ps.57:8

Because David was king of a "like the nation's kingdom" which had fired God, he believed perhaps like all others around him in the nations that the harp and lyre was a "house" for the gods and if you played it just right you could get "him" to speak to you.

Rubel Shelly: Because of the importance of seeking, knowing, and doing the divine will,

the Book of Psalms is introduced by the challenge to "delight in" and to "meditate on" the instructions of the Lord day and night (Psa. 1:2). And although not every psalm is written by David, many of his psalms preserved to us in the collection are beautiful prayers to Yahweh.

Perhaps David was speaking of the godly but not of himself:

BLESSED is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. Psalm 1:1

But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. Psalm 1:2

And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper. Psalm 1:3

The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away. Psalm 1:4

Rubel Shelly: David sought the Lord through meditating on his instruction and communing with him in prayer.

That is why his life had a spirituality about it that most of ours lack.

Oh! Puleezeee!

What is that you said? He was guilty of murder and adultery?

Exactly! And what do you think kept sins that serious from destroying him? His time with Scripture and prayer had created a sensitivity toward God that drew him back there at the lowest and worst time of his life for pardon, renewal, and healing.

Unfortunately, it didn't keep him out of sin very long at a time. And apparently the fear of death had a lot to do with his repentance:

HAVE mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.

Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. Psalm 51:2

For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. Psalm 51:3

Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest. Psalm 51:4

Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. Psalm 51:7

Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Psalm 51:10

Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me (i.e. don't kill me like you did Saul.) Psalm 51:11

Well, just as Solomon sought out and cataloged all of the sins of mankind, David was also guilty of them all. A man after God's own heart? Yes. But that was in the early days of David's life.

And the Lord was with Jehoshaphat, because he walked in the first ways of his father David, and sought not unto Baalim; 2Chr.17:3

Say what? When David performed the first Ark Moving ritual he failed to know how to move the ark because the Book of the Law was in the ark and copies were often lost. There is not a shred of evidence that David actually taught his children anything about the Word of God. Wise Solomon became the consumate idolater and the billions of dollars spend on the temple were looted within five years of his death. Civil war resulted from his enslaving of the people to build the Temple with the Levitical Musicians as the overseers or "excellers" to drive the people with music and whips.

Rubel Shelly: Reality. The desire for God isn't enough in and of itself to fix, heal, and restore us from the things that have thrown us off-course in life.

And this is a point that needs to be made clearly and emphatically. The gospel is sometimes presented to people in a tone of such naivete that they are left with the impression that anyone who accepts Christ as Savior and gets baptized, joins a church and teaches Sunday School, or prays to be released from painful memories and past rebellion will be healed instantly and given victory over cancer or depression, alcoholism or sexual addiction.

In the real-life circumstances of your experience, the gospel is always on-target

but so may be therapy for childhood sexual abuse or medication for depression, Alcoholics Anonymous or a twelve-step program for sex addicts.

The cross is not your means for escaping reality but the heart of your courage to face it.

You need forgiveness from the heavy load of guilt you have been carrying that would eventually crush and destroy you. But you also need understanding and insight for dealing with what happened, how it affected you, and what it made you do.

Unfortunately, God and the Bible isn't enough but the contemporary definition of the church is that it is capable of solving these problems through human philosophy:

"Mark Laaser was trained as a pastor at Princeton Theological Seminary and received his doctorate in religion and psychology at the University of Iowa. to order Mark's books, audio tapes and video tapes click on photo for Dr. Laaser's curriculum vitae

Rubel Shelly: Community. Yesterday I heard Mark Laaser make the point that,

since most of our hurts come from relationships,

so will most healing come in relationship.

In the "Healthy Families / Healthy Sexuality Seminar" we hosted, he was pointing us to the biblical truth that spiritual rehabilitation from life's brokenness doesn't happen in isolation.

In fact, isolation from others can both create and exacerbate our problems.

[Therefore] The God who exists in the companionship of the Holy Trinity

has created us to live in healthy relationships with one another. In these relationships we learn how to value, nurture, and love one another -- the actions above all others that count as "godliness." You do not know how to love God until you learn how to love other human beings.

John Mark Hicks notes that Max Lucado and Rubel Shelly have been instrumental in introducing the TRINITY of persons into Churches of Christ. However, the event had it origin almost exclusively in churches of Christ under the influence of the Gospel Advocate and H. Leo Boles. John Mark's article is here. He warns that the "incarnatonal" views deny that Christ CAME FULLY IN THE FLESH. Of course, John would mark this is the Anti-Christian teaching. Click for more.

Tertulian credited with the word TRIAS never described the trinity as three separated persons as Shelly has them playing dirty tricks on one another.

And Theopolus agrees. Henry Blackaby teaches that there is only one possible will for the life of every Christian, and that the Christian must learn God's perfect will for every action or else he will go astray. But how can we learn God's will for everything we do without a continuing revelation from God? Not to worry- just follow your leaders and do not disagree with anything they propose. According to Blackaby, true Christian unity means that all members of a church must be in to talk agreement even on non-moral, nontheological matters (such as whether to proceed with a building program.)

On page 169 Blackaby warns that if a member disagrees with the majority, this "indicates that they might have a fellowship problem with the Lord." He goes on to describe his model church, in which they never took a vote asking 'How many of you are for this and how many of you are against it?' That is the wrong question. Every time you ask that question you have a potential church split." Say goodbye to the model of congregational rule, and say hello to dictator rule. It is too bad that Blackaby was not around to put a stop to the election of the Apostle Matthias in Acts 1!

Fighting God in hundreds of statements about God's oneness seen in three or more images, the dogma of The Holy Trinity is a latter-day Catholic adaptation of the ancient Babylonian or Egyptian or universal triad of primary deities. The view is that God would get lonesome and therefore He needed, could not exist without, a second and third "person" to keep Him company and to help carry the load.

That is, in paganism until one of the "gods" was killed and his blood mingled with clay to manufacture mankind to do the work of the "gods." Rubel Shelly tells the joke of the father god and spirit god acing out the son god to have him come and die for mankind. This is a derivitive of the Babylonian mystery - The Holy Trinity (purely a Catholic term) of three persons (people) of Catholicism which ignores all of the early church Fathers view of God as One. Here they are. Click for More

Rubel Shelly: "God sets the lonely in families, he leads forth the prisoners with singing; but the rebellious live in a sun-scorched land" (Psa. 68:6).

The KJV reads:

God setteth the solitary in families: he bringeth out those which are bound with chains: but the rebellious dwell in a dry land. Psalm 68:6KJV

The word means HOUSES. This may or may not be in families but it is NOT in religious organizations.

The clergy-laded BURDEN is defined as "spiritual anxiety created by religious ceremonial" so one doubts that the Psalmist is giving his approval for a musical worship team to "lead the worshipers into the presence of God." Furthermore, Rubel recommends "baptizing Santa and the S.U.N. God to think of the S.O.N. God."

There is no word for "singing" in this verse:

Kowsharah (h3574) ko-shaw-raw'; from 3787; prosperity; in plur. freedom: - * chain.

Kiy (h3587) kee; from 3554; a brand or scar: - burning.

The entire context in the NIV speaks of the orphan, the widow and the prisoners. He says nothing about grouping people into group-therapy or confessionals:

Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him. Psalm 68:4

A father of the fatherless, and a judge of the widows, is God in his holy habitation. Psalm 68:5

God sets the lonely (the darling but desolate child) in families (kin), he leads forth the prisoners with singing; but the rebellious (stubborn backslider) live in a sun-scorched land. Psalm 68:6NIV

The "family" name of God is not God; it is Yahweh-Saves or Jehovah-Saves or Jesus Christ. God is derived from Gad the god of fortune as church is derived from Kirke or Circe the holy whore buried on an island close to Patmos as John was writing his warning about the musical whore religion. Circe was especially good at using music and magical incantations (drugs) or sorcery to turn perfectly good sailors "Mis-navigated by her winds" into beasts including swine.

Rubel Shelly: This line is from a processional psalm that praises God for his ability to meet the needs of his people. Whether viewed as a psalm for Israel to use in bring the ark of the covenant to Jerusalem or for the church to celebrate the redemptive work of Christ, it celebrates the fact that God gives his people relationships with one another.

When the first Ark movement was with all of the national "congregation" the Law was disobeyed, a man got killed and the Ark was saved from going to Jerusalem for a time. During the second ark processional David "played" which was what Israel did at Mount Sinai and got the nation sentenced with the Law of Moses. He sang, danced with the girls, played his instrument and stripped off his clothes. Yes, the Bible says "naked" even though some would allow the vest-like ephod. In the end God permitted David to set up his own tent in Zion because David was too fearful to return to the Tabernacle to "enquire of God."

Click to Read what the Septuagint (LXX) says about Israel's musical processions.

It is true that His name "singular" is Yah or Jehovah. Now, His name is Jehovah-Saves or Jesus: His name is NOT God which is a generic word.

If Jehovah is the father and Judge then we should confess to Him under the name of Jesus Christ Who is the One and Only Mediator of God's grace, forgiveness or psychological "healing." Psychology cannot heal spiritual problems and while the church is turned into a One-Stop-Shop for meeting needs better left to other institutions, the work of the church is to God: Go, Preach, Baptize, Teach.

Rubel Shelly: "God sets the lonely in families, he leads forth the prisoners with singing; but the rebellious live in a sun-scorched land" (Psa. 68:6). This line is from a processional psalm that praises God for his ability to meet the needs of his people. Whether viewed as a psalm for Israel to use in bring the ark of the covenant to Jerusalem or for the church to celebrate the redemptive work of Christ, it celebrates the fact that God gives his people relationships with one another. In the context of those relationships, we find the true purpose and meaning of our individual lives. If the family isn't a nuclear one, it is the family of God -- the larger church community -- where we find encouragement and accountability.

John Elias defines the Purpose Driven Church to include:

A disciple-making process is designed to turn new converts into committed disciples. The disciple-making process is made tangible by the "five circles of commitment" and the "life development process."

For new members to become a part of the leadership core, they must attend specific training classes and

sign ministry agreements. What level of accountability are the congregation's members willing to accept?

This is the Willow Creek and Saddleback Community Church Seeker Systems.

Remember that the thesis is that we need a family because God needed a family: the Blessed Holy Trinity which is really "father, mother, child."

Ancient and modern paganism sought to mass people into herds or flocks so that the priest could "meter out" the tribal knowledge base, provide ceremonial methods of psychological cleansing, provide means for regaining standing with the tribe and making sure that the tribal income would up in the tribal temple. That was the system established by Nimrod at the Towers of Babel. However, the command of Jesus is to "go, disperse, unhook" from father and mother and clan systems. Be a man. Be a human who stands naked on the solitary plains of time with nothing and nobody between the individual and their God. Families are important but time comes to cut the ties, push the kids out of the nest and, like the spores of leaven, branch out and fill the world with the Words of Christ rather than being sucked back into the Group Mind of tribes.

A tribe will boast of "meals on wheels" and a host of ministry-driven tasks; but the work is usually done by the lone individuals while the "ministry leader" gets the credit. This is based on a TREE concept in which everything is tied to the control roots. However, Jesus likened the kingdom to leaven where each tiny cell spreads out so that the whole mass is leavened.

The cluster phylosophy just permits the "evangelist" to stay at home, write books, get rich and popular where a Christ-driven evangelist will never achieve fame and fortune.

Rubel Shelly: With a trusted small group of family members,

we can share the things that are most challenging in our spiritual lives.

We can pray for one another.

We can hold one another responsible to the high calling we have accepted as Christ's disciples.

"He who conceals his sins [or heartaches, trauma, addictions, RS] does not prosper, but whoever confesses and renounces them finds mercy" (Prov. 28:13; cf. Jas. 5:16).

Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: James 5:14

And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he hath committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. James 5:15

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. James 5:16

Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; James 5:19

Planao (g4105) plan-ah'-o; from 4106; to (prop. cause to) roam (from safety, truth, or virtue): - go astray, deceive, err, seduce, wander, be out of the way.

Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. James 5:20

The word for SIN or FAULTS applies to sins against God or our fellow man:

Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Matthew 18:21

An article against the International Church of Christ confessional notes that:

"The main problem with point 6 is that James 5:16 cannot be read out of it's context. It cannot stand alone as an independent statement. Why not? Because verse 16 begins with a connective word, "Therefore". It links the sentence or thought before it with the sentence or thought after it. In other words, it links verse 16 to verse 15. Verse 15 also begins with a connective word, "And", which means that verse 15 is linked to verse 14. One has to read verse 16 as a part of a whole which encompasses verses 14, 15 and 16.

"Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective." (Js 5:14-16)

Bishop Alexander Hislop warns against the wrong interpretation of James.

The clerical power of the Roman priesthood culminated in the erection of the confessional. That confessional was itself borrowed from Babylon. The confession required of the votaries of Rome is entirely different from the confession prescribed in the Word of God.

The dictate of Scripture in regard to confession is, "Confess your faults one to another" (James 5:16), which implies that the priest should confess to the people, as well as the people to the priest, if either should sin against the other.

This could never have served any purpose of spiritual despotism; and therefore,

Rome, leaving the Word of God, has had recourse to the Babylonian system.

In that system, secret confession to the priest, according to a prescribed form, was required of all who were admitted to the "Mysteries";

and till such confession had been made, no complete initiation could take place. Thus does Salverte refer to this confession as observed in Greece, in rites that can be clearly traced to a Babylonian origin:

"All the Greeks, from Delphi to Thermopylae, were initiated in the Mysteries of the temple of Delphi.

More Bob Mumford

"In 1970 five prominent charismatic leaders, Derek Prince, Don Basham, Bob Mumford, Charles Simpson and Ern Baxter, electrified the Christian world by announcing that they had entered into a covenant of accountability with each other.

To avoid falling into temptation, they were going to meet regularly and hold each other accountable for their Christian walk and life decisions.

"This new movement, called "discipleship" or "shepherding", attracted thousands of followers, who willingly submitted themselves to be accountable to their spiritual leaders in all matters, including finances, dating and marriage, career choices, and where they lived and attended church.

"Human nature being what it is, thousands of lives were ruined as their spiritual leaders took advantage of them, forcing their hapless "disciples" to give up their Christian liberty and power of decision-making, subordinating their personalities and talents for the good of the larger group. (church is an assembly or synagogue: it is not a family on earth)

In 1985 the famous five founders of this movement announced that their covenant of accountability was not working out and they were breaking it up. They have been apologizing for the abuses of this movement ever since.

"However, the concept of accountability keeps popping up in various circles, under new guises. Some men's movements are urging their followers to meet in small groups for the purpose of holding each other accountable.

There is no shortage of would-be "disciplers" circulating in some churches and Christian movements, looking for spineless "schmoes" who are willing to be "discipled" and let someone tell them what to do with their lives...

"As Baptists, we are people of the Book, followers of that the Bible teaches. Therefore, we should reject these notions of accountability, discipleship and shepherding that are being hatched in charismatic and interdenominational circles.

The Machiavelli FAX of Life Resisting Change(From:Faith Matters)

I have added links to Machiavelli's Prince to assist you in understand the "Volkish" revival and the universal methods of change:

Machiavelli Prince Ch3-Ch6-Ch7

For comparison we will not some of Hitler's message about how to organize the "human" material (emotional) to be used by the elite (the rational) with music being important:

Hitler: Völkish State: Supporters (emotional) and Leaders (Intellectual)

Mein Kampf Vol 2, Ch5, Ch8, Ch11

This is the same "cluster" concept which is a "belly-button-contemplation-society" but it removes the focus from hard-headed Biblical training which would prevent most of those ills needing psychologists to heal. Now, look at the proof-text:

He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy. Proverbs 28:13

Confess does not mean to confess to a "Father" or "Mother" figure but to God. The process is confess to God and quit doing it. There is nothing that a father-confessor can do in that process. The word is most often "praise" in the sense of telling others about God.

We find no evidence that this word is used of a confessee to confessor sense.

We offend Joe than we confess to Joe but we do not confess to "Jack and Jill" because Jack and Jill will run down the hill and spill their pail of water. Confessors have historically used confession as a power base over people. Cover or confess is the Hebrew:

Yadah (h3034) yaw-daw'; a prim. root; used only as denom. from 3027; lit. to use (i. e. hold out) the hand; phys. to throw (a stone, an arrow) at or away; espec. to revere or worship (with extended hands); intens. to bemoan (by wringing the hands): - cast (out), (make) confess (- ion), praise, shoot, (give) thank (-ful, -s, -sgiving).

AND in that day thou shalt say, O Lord, I will praise thee: though thou wast angry with me, thine anger is turned away, and thou comfortedst me. Is.12:1

Jehovah-Saves says that we should do that in our "closet" or private places where there is no church official who has anything to do with getting between God and His children. Any confessor figure will most often provide the "atonement" which is the key message of the Jubilee.

Click Here to read Erasmus' identical views that there is not room in the church of Christ for human confessors. And probably not among those trained in psychology.

Click Here to read about the Promise Keeper's National Shepherding Movement.

Rubel Shelly uses James 5:16 in the Cross Roads or Boston Church of Christ or Promise Keepers or Catholicism or the International Church of Christ sense:

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. James 5:16

This is not a magical device but to simply acknowledge one's guilt to the one offended:

Ecomologeo (g1843) ex-om-ol-og-eh'-o; from 1537 and 3670; to acknowledge or (by impl. of assent) agree fully: - confess, profess, promise.

One Another is not a general confession in a small Prayer Circle but:

Allelon (g240) al-lay'-lone; Gen. plur. from 243 redupl.; one another: - each other, mutual, one another, (the other), (them-, your-) selves, (selves) together ].

And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. Mt.24:10

Holding One Another Responsiblity to the High Calling:

There simply is no evidence in either of these "proof texts" that the confessee has any authority to hold the confessor responsible. The only way one can do that is the Promise-Keeper's or Boston Movement's assignment of responsibility to a "keeper" to monitor the actions of another.

This is pure legalism: you confess, you get forgiveness but we gonna watch you and make sure that God's forgiveness and forgetfulness gets some psychological aid. A "circle" to watch over thee.

In these Shepherding movements, as well as the Babylonian and Erasmus' confession the motive is to pry into the intimate sexual activities between a man and a wife. And to demand correction. That is the only way one can "hold another responsible." In many cults the "holding accountable" can bring on force. In many others the cult power is psychological oppression. One cannot be free with a father-figure checking up on even one's thought processing.

Is this Shepherding movement suggestion part of the "Healthy Families / Healthy Sexuality Seminar?"

Again, if we offend Joe then we confess to Joe. However, if one is Bible based rather than Sexual-Seminar based it becomes day-light clear that sin and confession is solely between God and the Sinner:

"For day and night your hand was heavy upon me..." (Ps 32:4)

"You are my hiding place; you will protect me from trouble..." (Ps 32:7)

"Have mercy on me, O God, according to your unfailing love; according to your great compassion blot out my transgressions. Wash away my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin" (Ps 51:1-2)

"Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight, so that you are proved right when you speak and justified when you judge." (Ps 51:4)

"Then I acknowledged my sin to you (God) and did not cover up my iniquity. I said 'I will confess my transgressions to the Lord' - and you forgave the guilt of my sin." (Ps 32:5)

For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. Ro.14:11

Before you begin "confessing your sins" in small groups and allowing any person to act as priest and "hold you accountable to them for even your sexual actions" you should Click Here.

"As an example or model prayer Jesus taught that disciples are to go directly to God for forgiveness of sins. (Lk 11:2+4) This is the teaching of the Bible. (1 Tim 2:5, Heb 4:16 and 10:19-22, Lk 18:13-14, Ps 32:5) Confessing directly to God is also the example in Scripture set by Nehemiah (Ne 1:4-11), Daniel (Dan 9:3-20) and Ezra (Ezr 9:5-10). And even though Ezra was a Levitical priest, he taught God's people to confess to God (Ezr 10:11). Many groups have used the false teaching that you must confess your sins to a person placed in a position of authority over you by the group to dominate and control people (particularly Roman Catholicism). If a person wants to confess their sins to another person, in order to seek counsel, prayer, or whatever, that is their choice to make. But they should never feel that they have to, or that they are expected to. The Bible clearly teaches:

"For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." (1 Tim 2:5)

Rubel Shelly: Go back now to the metaphor I gave you earlier that told of a treacherous Italian channel. How do sailors find their way? They get the three beacon lights in alignment with each other. In the same way,

when the Word of God, [affirms]

our life circumstances, [affirms]

Bob Mumford adds The Holy Spirit here.

Henry Blackaby tells us how we can know about God. "In the Scriptures knowledge of God comes through experience. We come to know god as we experience Him in and around our lives." (p.5) "God wants you to come to a greater knowledge of Himself via experience. (p.19)

Rubel Shelly: and a supportive community of fellow-believers [affirms]

affirm a course of action,

we can proceed with boldness and confidence. While we are not infallible in our judgments, these three beacons in alignment with one another

constitute good reason to proceed with a course of action.

That is it: you need something from the Bible (command, example, inference). You also need to consider the circumstances -- the situational thing. Then you need a community that will agree with the Bible and your circumstances. Then, finally, you can charge full steam ahead.

Click for Bob Mumford and the Discipling - New Wineskins Creed:

According to Mumford, the shepherd is to nurture discipleship through a three - part program,

including baptism by water,
discipleship by a man "commissioned by God,"
and acknowledging

the abiding presence of Christ

with the shepherd (or disciple maker)
and his disciples.

Mumford advocates avoiding spiritual independence

that would lead to religious anarchy
in favor of embracing the yoke of Christ as a symbol of discipleship.

In a typical Discipleship community, household fellowships gather in closed weekly meetings. Often the leading shepherds in a community have been directly trained by one of the above - named leaders.

The members are often obliged to submit to covenantal norms, such as

tithing, (Note: a sure sign of legalism Click Here)
obedience to the authority of the community

(which also may have authority in the area of male - female relationships),

and the requirement of job - holding for all but married women.

Rubel Shelly: Tithing and Temples Authorize Giving? Dr. Shelly notes that generosity is one of the CORE themes of the Bible. The Vineyard also makes the end phase "generosity" right after the musical worship team and having a climax experience with God.

I don't know how you could say it any plainer: that a statement from the Word of God is not adequate for faith and practice. The Word of God does not equip us for life and godliness.

The problem with this paradigm is that men are always moving the beacon lights. The Disciples of Christ came out of the Methodist or Anglican or Church of England or Catholic view of "the high church." For instance,

Alfred DeGroot speaks for the Disciples "hermeneutic" just explained by Rubel Shelly:

"Broadly speaking, it may be said that number

1 above generated the present fellowship called Disciples of Christ, and that number (church)

2 gave rise to the Churches of Christ. (sect)

According to Troeltsch,

Disciples would be among the 'church' type and
Churches of Christ among the 'sect' type.

"By 'church' is meant that body of conceptions which says "From the beginning they have been 'high churchmen'...

because they 'never ceased to stress the visible and corporate character of the Church as the Divine Society,' and

rejected 'legalized methods and structural forms which are a contradiction of the living nature of the church.'

J. H. Harrison said that "there is God and Jesus and all of the rest is opinion." Click for more "High Church" or Catholic methods. This high church can easily ridicule the "law of silence" because they have the authority to use the bible, life circumstances, and the church community to "affirm a course of action."

That is about what Rubel Shelly, Latter Rain and Leroy Garret claim.

Conclusion

Rubel Shelly: "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding . . ." To trust in God and to put his will above our own understanding is the essence of humility. This all-too-rare Christian virtue empties one of egotistical arrogance in favor of childlike faith. Humility allows one to acknowledge that it is not her life to do with as she pleases but that her life has been surrendered to Christ for pardon, hope, and daily guidance.

But it seems that Rubel Shelly is saying that if you trust in the Lord with all of your heart He will give you understanding not available through His Word. Sure, our lives don't belong to us but they assuredly "do not belong to the company sto." How can you trust in the Lord unless the Lord speaks through His Word plus our own situation plus the agreement of our church family.

Rubel Shelly: "In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight." The operative word here is "all." God is to be sovereign over every aspect of a believer's life. Not just in special seasons or in holy places but always and everywhere, his will is to be sought in all things.

In church assemblies and at work, in public view and in the privacy found behind closed doors, in your business ethics and at play -- the acknowledgment of God carries a promised reward.

He will move the obstacles out of the way that otherwise could have broken your fellowship and kept you apart

Yes, there are times when such trust appears to be misguided. "He trusts in God," mocked the people watching Jesus die. "Let God rescue him now if he wants him!" (Matt. 27:43). Was that bitter for the Son of God to hear and to bear? Why, he even cried aloud in his anguish about his sense of God-forsakenness on the cross, did he not? (cf. Matt. 27:46). Yet he died with these words on his lips: "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit" (Luke 23:46). On Sunday morning, the obstacles were removed and his path home was clear!

In your present or coming ordeal, cry out. Confess your own sense of pain or God-forsakenness. But keep the beacons in line, and trust God to guide you. He won't fail you.

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